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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">In 2014 we discovered that NSW
Procurement guidelines for large projects state [1]:<br>
<i>23.1 The Contractor must ensure that:</i><i><br>
</i><i>(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source
Software; and</i><i><br>
</i><i>(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the
Customer Environment,</i><i><br>
</i><i>except to the extent otherwise approved by the Customer
in writing. </i><br>
<br>
I've been alerted to the fact that this clause still exists in
the new draft, which is apparently due to be made public in
September.<br>
<br>
Jack, I know you co-authored a submission to get this changed,
and presented the submission. Where did that eventually get to?<br>
<br>
I'm thinking we might need to resubmit your submission.<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
[1]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/system/files/documents/module_13a_major_project_systems_integration_services_v3.2.pdf">https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/system/files/documents/module_13a_major_project_systems_integration_services_v3.2.pdf</a><br>
<br>
On 20-Nov-14 8:07 PM, Jack Burton wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1416474471.15917.71.camel@fs.saosce.com.au">Evening,
all.
<pre wrap="">Just a quick note to let everyone know that the board is considering the
matter and how best to act on it.
Thanks Cameron for bringing this to our attention in the first place and
for your contributions since.
I believe this is an important matter, but at the same time it's worth
noting that that particular revision of the NSW Government's Procure IT
framework has been in force for almost 18 months already [1], so whilst
important, it's not necessarily urgent.
So if we are to seek change, it is worth taking the time to ensure we do
so in the manner most likely to succeed.
The board is considering a number of options and one of us will post to
this list as soon as a decision has been made.
In the meantime, please don't let that serve to stifle discussion at all
-- often the best ideas can come from threads just like this one.
Regards,
Jack Burton
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jack@saosce.com.au"><jack@saosce.com.au></a>
[1] "Version 3.1 replaces version 3.0, and is applicable to all IT
purchases made after 13 June 2013." -- see 2nd paragraph at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31">https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31</a>
_______________________________________________
Osia-members mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Osia-members@osia.com.au">Osia-members@osia.com.au</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.osia.com.au/mailman/listinfo/osia-members">http://www.osia.com.au/mailman/listinfo/osia-members</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
On 19-Nov-14 6:42 AM, Cameron Shorter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:546BA141.1070109@gmail.com">I
propose that the following email is sent on behalf of OSIA by the
OSIA president:<br>
<br>
From: OSIA president<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:nswbuy@finance.nsw.gov.au">nswbuy@finance.nsw.gov.au</a><br>
CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:osia-members@osia.com.au">osia-members@osia.com.au</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@lisasoft.com">cameron.shorter@lisasoft.com</a><br>
<br>
To NSW Procurement Team,<br>
<br>
We, the Open Source Industry of Australia, who represent
Australian Open Source companies, are concerned that NSW
Procurement guidelines about Open Source Software should be
changed.<br>
The guidelines:<br>
* Inaccurately imply Proprietary Software is less risky than Open
Source [1],<br>
* Unfairly discriminate against Australian Open Source Software
solutions [1],<br>
* Conflict with Australian government policy which directly
mandate that Open Source and Proprietary Software should be
considered equally.[2]<br>
* Increases the cost of NSW Government IT purchases by actively
discouraging use of Open Source.<br>
<br>
Could the NSW Procurement Team please review the current Open
Source statement, and assess the appropriateness of updating to
Australian Government Policy statements related to Open Source.<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>Reference 1:</b><br>
<br>
The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1) specifically
discourses use of Open Source software with Major Project System
Integration Services.<br>
<br>
<i>23 Open Source Software </i><i><br>
</i><i>23.1 The Contractor must ensure that: </i><i><br>
</i><i>(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software;
and </i><i><br>
</i><i>(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the
Customer Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved by
the Customer in writing. </i><i><br>
</i><i>23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation to
the use of any Open Source Software </i><i><br>
</i><i>under clause 23.1: </i><i><br>
</i><i>(a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open
Source Software will not result in an obligation to disclose,
license or otherwise make available any part of the Customer
Environment or any of the Customer’sConfidential Information to
any third party; and </i><i><br>
</i><i>(b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any
way diminish the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract,
including without limitation in relation to any warranties,
indemnities or any provisions dealing with the licensing or
assignment of Intellectual Property. </i><br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31">https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31</a><br>
See: Module 13A Major project systems integration services<br>
<br>
<b>Reference 2:</b><br>
The "Australian Government Policy on Open Source Software"
specificy encourages equal assessment Open Source Software:<br>
<i>Principle 1: Australian Government ICT procurement processes
must actively and fairly consider all types of available
software.</i><i><br>
</i><i>Australian Government agencies must actively and fairly
consider all types of available software (including but not
limited to open source software and proprietary software)
through their ICT procurement processes. It is recognised there
may be areas where open source software is not yet available for
consideration. Procurement decisions must be made based on value
for money. Procurement decisions should take into account </i><i><br>
</i><i>whole-of-life costs, capability, security, scalability,
transferability, support and manageability requirements.</i><i><br>
</i><i>For a covered procurement (over $80K), agencies are
required to include in their procurement plan that open source
software will be considered equally alongside proprietary
software. Agencies will be required to insert a statement into
any Request for Tender that they will consider open source
software equally alongside proprietary software. Tender
responses will be evaluated under the normal requirements of the
Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. For a non-covered
procurement (below $80K), agencies are required to document all
key decisions, as required by the Commonwealth Procurement
Guidelines. This includes how they considered open source
software suppliers when selecting suppliers to respond to the
Select Tender or Request for Quotation.</i><i><br>
</i><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.finance.gov.au/policy-guides-procurement/open-source-software/">http://www.finance.gov.au/policy-guides-procurement/open-source-software/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/11/2014 4:04 pm, Daniel Jitnah
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5459AFD4.2020702@greenwareit.com.au"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi
Just quickly read the actual NSW document on this matter. Two points:
My guess is that these clauses have been in there for a long time and
no-one has really paid much attention to them. They reflect the typical
attitude of say 5yrs+ past of Gov agencies and large business regarding
OSS at the time of intense Microsoft fud re: SCO etc. (Note the
original doc is from 2011, and none of the changes mentionned (in 2013)
appeared to have affected the relevant sections. Chances are these
clauses even predate 2011)
Fortunately things have changed since and more and more Gov are seeing
the benefit of OSS. So these clause are obsolete.
But that does not mean that this state of matter should not be
changed/removed.
The wording is very unfortunate and reflects a serious misunderstanding
(and suspicion) about open source.
The Victorian Gov. has a similar clause, but is far less negative about
FOSS and only goes as far to asking that the providers asks for the
Clients permission before including FOSS.
(The scary bit :
The Contractor must ensure that: //
//(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software; and //
//(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the Customer
Environment.
does not exist in the Vic version).
OSIA did respond to the relevant part in the Victorian document
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.osia.com.au/drupal7/sites/default/files/OSIA_submission_1.pdf">http://www.osia.com.au/drupal7/sites/default/files/OSIA_submission_1.pdf</a>
(2013),
and queried why such clauses were included and asked for a reassurance
that if the client had any issues they would first consult with the
provider and attempt to resolve the issues first instead of denying
"permission" without explanation without providing the provider an
opportunity to address the issues. Although this is *not* an ideal
position, OSIA felt that it was an acceptable compromise, and would also
provide an opportunity to "educate" the client about FOSS, which we felt
was the likely basis for including such clauses.
One other thing of concerned in the NSW doc, is the definition of Open
Source. It is far broader than the more current definition from a
licensing point of view (OSI license). That further suggests a poor
understanding of Open Source software license which was common then.
Probably the best way to approach this is to seek that the NSW Gov
updates the document to reflect the latest trends in adoption of FOSS.
I am sure there are plenty of examples that they can be pointed to that
show the benefits of open source and that the clauses mentionned only
restrains their own abilities to make gain of the benefits of Open Source.
Cheers,
Daniel.
On 05/11/14 15:17, Martyn Reeves wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Cameron
It is indeed a concern but I guess the good news is that NSW IT is
willing to accept OSS based systems these days.
We often see these issues when large organisations look to procure OSS
code/applications. Black Duck Software can help bidders like you by
creating a BoM for the code base showing exactly which pieces of OSS are
used and how. And specifically what the obligations are for each OSS
license and where they may conflict which each other, and also with the
declared or published license. We can do this as a once off audit to
accompany a bid or it can also be offered as an ongoing service as new
releases are put together. Black Duck can also show security
vulnerabilities for all the OSS that is contained within the BoM, or for
any piece of OSS that is requested.
You can read more here <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.blackducksoftware.com/audits">https://www.blackducksoftware.com/audits</a> or feel
free to ask me any questions by mail
Hope this helps.
Martyn Reeves
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mreeves@blackducksoftware.com">mreeves@blackducksoftware.com</a>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:osia-members-bounces@osia.com.au">osia-members-bounces@osia.com.au</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:osia-members-bounces@osia.com.au">osia-members-bounces@osia.com.au</a>] on behalf of Cameron Shorter
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>]
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 04, 2014 6:21 PM
*To:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:osia-members@osia.com.au">osia-members@osia.com.au</a>
*Subject:* [Osia-members] NSW Government Procurement actively
discourages use of Open Source
I'm not sure if others are aware of this, but I suspect it is directly
of concerned to all of us working with Open Source Software.
The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1) specifically discourses
use of Open Source software with Major Project System Integration Services.
/23 Open Source Software //
//23.1 The Contractor must ensure that: //
//(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software; and //
//(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the Customer
Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved by the Customer in
writing. //
//23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation to the use of
any Open Source Software //
//under clause 23.1: //
//(a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open Source
Software will not result in an obligation to disclose, license or
otherwise make available any part of the Customer Environment or any of
the Customer’sConfidential Information to any third party; and //
//(b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any way diminish
the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract, including without
limitation in relation to any warranties, indemnities or any provisions
dealing with the licensing or assignment of Intellectual Property. /
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31">https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31</a>
See: Module 13A Major project systems integration services
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter, Software and Data Solutions Manager,
Jirotech Pty Ltd,
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf, 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 8099 9000, M +61 419 142 254, W <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.jirotech.com">www.jirotech.com</a>
P +61 2 8099 9000, M +61 419 142 254, W <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.jirotech.com">www.jirotech.com</a></pre>
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