[Osia-members] NSW Government Procurement actively discourages use of Open Source

Don Christie don at catalyst.net.nz
Wed Nov 19 18:31:43 EST 2014


I'm guessing anything based on .NET is due for a review in NSW govt.
circles.


On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 12:01 +1000, Paul Moore wrote:
> I agree.
> 
> 
> It's outrageous that the NSW Government is so against free software
> and prevents it being assessed on it's own merits.
> 
> 
> Paul Moore - Astute Systems
> 
> On Wednesday, November 19, 2014, Cameron Shorter
> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>         I propose that the following email is sent on behalf of OSIA
>         by the OSIA president:
>         
>         From: OSIA president
>         To: nswbuy at finance.nsw.gov.au
>         CC: osia-members at osia.com.au, cameron.shorter at lisasoft.com
>         
>         To NSW Procurement Team,
>         
>         We, the Open Source Industry of Australia, who represent
>         Australian Open Source companies, are concerned that NSW
>         Procurement guidelines about Open Source Software should be
>         changed.
>         The guidelines:
>         * Inaccurately imply Proprietary Software is less risky than
>         Open Source [1],
>         * Unfairly discriminate against Australian Open Source
>         Software solutions [1],
>         * Conflict with Australian government policy which directly
>         mandate that Open Source and Proprietary Software should be
>         considered equally.[2]
>         * Increases the cost of NSW Government IT purchases by
>         actively discouraging use of Open Source.
>         
>         Could the NSW Procurement Team please review the current Open
>         Source statement, and assess the appropriateness of updating
>         to Australian Government Policy statements related to Open
>         Source.
>         
>         
>         Reference 1:
>         
>         The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1) specifically
>         discourses use of Open Source software with Major Project
>         System Integration Services.
>         
>         23 Open Source Software 
>         23.1 The Contractor must ensure that: 
>         (a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software;
>         and 
>         (b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the
>         Customer Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved
>         by the Customer in writing. 
>         23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation to the
>         use of any Open Source Software 
>         under clause 23.1: 
>         (a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open
>         Source Software will not result in an obligation to disclose,
>         license or otherwise make available any part of the Customer
>         Environment or any of the Customer’sConfidential Information
>         to any third party; and 
>         (b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any way
>         diminish the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract,
>         including without limitation in relation to any warranties,
>         indemnities or any provisions dealing with the licensing or
>         assignment of Intellectual Property. 
>         
>         https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31
>         See:  Module 13A Major project systems integration services
>         
>         Reference 2:
>         The "Australian Government Policy on Open Source Software"
>         specificy encourages equal assessment Open Source Software:
>         Principle 1: Australian Government ICT procurement processes
>         must actively and fairly consider all types of available
>         software.
>         Australian Government agencies must actively and fairly
>         consider all types of available software (including but not
>         limited to open source software and proprietary software)
>         through their ICT procurement processes. It is recognised
>         there may be areas where open source software is not yet
>         available for consideration. Procurement decisions must be
>         made based on value for money. Procurement decisions should
>         take into account 
>         whole-of-life costs, capability, security, scalability,
>         transferability, support and manageability requirements.
>         For a covered procurement (over $80K), agencies are required
>         to include in their procurement plan that open source software
>         will be considered equally alongside proprietary software.
>         Agencies will be required to insert a statement into any
>         Request for Tender that they will consider open source
>         software equally alongside proprietary software. Tender
>         responses will be evaluated under the normal requirements of
>         the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. For a non-covered
>         procurement (below $80K), agencies are required to document
>         all key decisions, as required by the Commonwealth Procurement
>         Guidelines. This includes how they considered open source
>         software suppliers when selecting suppliers to respond to the
>         Select Tender or Request for Quotation.
>         
>         http://www.finance.gov.au/policy-guides-procurement/open-source-software/
>         
>         
>         On 5/11/2014 4:04 pm, Daniel Jitnah wrote:
>         
>         > Hi
>         > 
>         > Just quickly read the actual NSW document on this matter.  Two points:
>         > 
>         > My guess is that these clauses have been in there for a long time and
>         > no-one has really paid much attention to them.  They reflect the typical
>         > attitude of say 5yrs+ past of Gov agencies and large business regarding
>         > OSS at the time of intense Microsoft fud re: SCO etc.   (Note the
>         > original doc is from 2011, and none of the changes mentionned (in 2013)
>         > appeared to have affected the relevant sections.  Chances are these
>         > clauses even predate 2011)
>         > 
>         > Fortunately things have changed since and more and more Gov are seeing
>         > the benefit of OSS.  So these clause are obsolete.
>         > 
>         > But that does not mean that this state of matter should not be
>         > changed/removed.
>         > 
>         > The wording is very unfortunate and reflects a serious misunderstanding
>         > (and suspicion) about open source.
>         > 
>         > The Victorian Gov. has a similar clause, but is far less negative about
>         > FOSS and only goes as far to asking that the providers asks for the
>         > Clients permission before including FOSS.
>         > 
>         > (The scary bit :
>         > The Contractor must ensure that: //
>         > //(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software; and //
>         > //(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the Customer
>         > Environment.
>         > 
>         > does not exist in the Vic version).
>         > 
>         > OSIA did respond to the relevant part in the Victorian document
>         > 
>         > http://www.osia.com.au/drupal7/sites/default/files/OSIA_submission_1.pdf
>         > (2013),
>         > 
>         > and queried why such clauses were included and asked for a reassurance
>         > that if the client had any issues they would first consult with the
>         > provider and attempt to resolve the issues first instead of denying
>         > "permission" without explanation without providing the provider an
>         > opportunity to address the issues.  Although this is *not* an ideal
>         > position, OSIA felt that it was an acceptable compromise, and would also
>         > provide an opportunity to "educate" the client about FOSS, which we felt
>         > was the likely basis for including such clauses.
>         > 
>         > One other thing of concerned in the NSW doc, is the definition of Open
>         > Source.  It is far broader than the more current definition from a
>         > licensing point of view (OSI license).  That further suggests a poor
>         > understanding of Open Source software license which was common then.
>         > 
>         > Probably the best way to approach this is to seek that the NSW Gov
>         > updates the document to reflect the latest trends in adoption of FOSS.
>         > I am sure there are plenty of examples that they can be pointed to that
>         > show the benefits of open source and that the clauses mentionned only
>         > restrains their own abilities to make gain of the benefits of Open Source.
>         > 
>         > 
>         > Cheers,
>         > 
>         > Daniel.
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > On 05/11/14 15:17, Martyn Reeves wrote:
>         > > Hi Cameron
>         > > 
>         > >  
>         > > 
>         > > It is indeed a concern but I guess the good news is that NSW IT is
>         > > willing to accept OSS based systems these days. 
>         > > 
>         > >  
>         > > 
>         > > We often see these issues when large organisations look to procure OSS
>         > > code/applications. Black Duck Software can help bidders like you by
>         > > creating a BoM for the code base showing exactly which pieces of OSS are
>         > > used and how.  And specifically what the obligations are for each OSS
>         > > license and where they may conflict which each other, and also with the
>         > > declared or published license.  We can do this as a once off audit to
>         > > accompany a bid or it can also be offered as an ongoing service as new
>         > > releases are put together. Black Duck can also show security
>         > > vulnerabilities for all the OSS that is contained within the BoM, or for
>         > > any piece of OSS that is requested. 
>         > > 
>         > >  
>         > > 
>         > > You can read more here https://www.blackducksoftware.com/audits or feel
>         > > free to ask me any questions by mail
>         > > 
>         > > 
>         > > Hope this helps.
>         > > 
>         > > 
>         > > Martyn Reeves 
>         > > 
>         > > mreeves at blackducksoftware.com
>         > > 
>         > > 
>         > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         > > *From:* osia-members-bounces at osia.com.au
>         > > [osia-members-bounces at osia.com.au] on behalf of Cameron Shorter
>         > > [cameron.shorter at gmail.com]
>         > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 04, 2014 6:21 PM
>         > > *To:* osia-members at osia.com.au
>         > > *Subject:* [Osia-members] NSW Government Procurement actively
>         > > discourages use of Open Source
>         > > 
>         > > I'm not sure if others are aware of this, but I suspect it is directly
>         > > of concerned to all of us working with Open Source Software.
>         > > 
>         > > The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1) specifically discourses
>         > > use of Open Source software with Major Project System Integration Services.
>         > > 
>         > > /23 Open Source Software //
>         > > //23.1 The Contractor must ensure that: //
>         > > //(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software; and //
>         > > //(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the Customer
>         > > Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved by the Customer in
>         > > writing. //
>         > > //23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation to the use of
>         > > any Open Source Software //
>         > > //under clause 23.1: //
>         > > //(a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open Source
>         > > Software will not result in an obligation to disclose, license or
>         > > otherwise make available any part of the Customer Environment or any of
>         > > the Customer’sConfidential Information to any third party; and //
>         > > //(b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any way diminish
>         > > the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract, including without
>         > > limitation in relation to any warranties, indemnities or any provisions
>         > > dealing with the licensing or assignment of Intellectual Property. /
>         > > 
>         > > https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31
>         > > See:  Module 13A Major project systems integration services
>         > > 
>         > > _______________________________________________
>         > > Osia-members mailing list
>         > > Osia-members at osia.com.au
>         > > http://www.osia.com.au/mailman/listinfo/osia-members
>         > 



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