[Osia-members] NSW Government Procurement actively discourages use of Open Source
Don Christie
don at catalyst.net.nz
Wed Nov 19 18:31:43 EST 2014
I'm guessing anything based on .NET is due for a review in NSW govt.
circles.
On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 12:01 +1000, Paul Moore wrote:
> I agree.
>
>
> It's outrageous that the NSW Government is so against free software
> and prevents it being assessed on it's own merits.
>
>
> Paul Moore - Astute Systems
>
> On Wednesday, November 19, 2014, Cameron Shorter
> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
> I propose that the following email is sent on behalf of OSIA
> by the OSIA president:
>
> From: OSIA president
> To: nswbuy at finance.nsw.gov.au
> CC: osia-members at osia.com.au, cameron.shorter at lisasoft.com
>
> To NSW Procurement Team,
>
> We, the Open Source Industry of Australia, who represent
> Australian Open Source companies, are concerned that NSW
> Procurement guidelines about Open Source Software should be
> changed.
> The guidelines:
> * Inaccurately imply Proprietary Software is less risky than
> Open Source [1],
> * Unfairly discriminate against Australian Open Source
> Software solutions [1],
> * Conflict with Australian government policy which directly
> mandate that Open Source and Proprietary Software should be
> considered equally.[2]
> * Increases the cost of NSW Government IT purchases by
> actively discouraging use of Open Source.
>
> Could the NSW Procurement Team please review the current Open
> Source statement, and assess the appropriateness of updating
> to Australian Government Policy statements related to Open
> Source.
>
>
> Reference 1:
>
> The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1) specifically
> discourses use of Open Source software with Major Project
> System Integration Services.
>
> 23 Open Source Software
> 23.1 The Contractor must ensure that:
> (a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software;
> and
> (b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the
> Customer Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved
> by the Customer in writing.
> 23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation to the
> use of any Open Source Software
> under clause 23.1:
> (a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open
> Source Software will not result in an obligation to disclose,
> license or otherwise make available any part of the Customer
> Environment or any of the Customer’sConfidential Information
> to any third party; and
> (b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any way
> diminish the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract,
> including without limitation in relation to any warranties,
> indemnities or any provisions dealing with the licensing or
> assignment of Intellectual Property.
>
> https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31
> See: Module 13A Major project systems integration services
>
> Reference 2:
> The "Australian Government Policy on Open Source Software"
> specificy encourages equal assessment Open Source Software:
> Principle 1: Australian Government ICT procurement processes
> must actively and fairly consider all types of available
> software.
> Australian Government agencies must actively and fairly
> consider all types of available software (including but not
> limited to open source software and proprietary software)
> through their ICT procurement processes. It is recognised
> there may be areas where open source software is not yet
> available for consideration. Procurement decisions must be
> made based on value for money. Procurement decisions should
> take into account
> whole-of-life costs, capability, security, scalability,
> transferability, support and manageability requirements.
> For a covered procurement (over $80K), agencies are required
> to include in their procurement plan that open source software
> will be considered equally alongside proprietary software.
> Agencies will be required to insert a statement into any
> Request for Tender that they will consider open source
> software equally alongside proprietary software. Tender
> responses will be evaluated under the normal requirements of
> the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. For a non-covered
> procurement (below $80K), agencies are required to document
> all key decisions, as required by the Commonwealth Procurement
> Guidelines. This includes how they considered open source
> software suppliers when selecting suppliers to respond to the
> Select Tender or Request for Quotation.
>
> http://www.finance.gov.au/policy-guides-procurement/open-source-software/
>
>
> On 5/11/2014 4:04 pm, Daniel Jitnah wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Just quickly read the actual NSW document on this matter. Two points:
> >
> > My guess is that these clauses have been in there for a long time and
> > no-one has really paid much attention to them. They reflect the typical
> > attitude of say 5yrs+ past of Gov agencies and large business regarding
> > OSS at the time of intense Microsoft fud re: SCO etc. (Note the
> > original doc is from 2011, and none of the changes mentionned (in 2013)
> > appeared to have affected the relevant sections. Chances are these
> > clauses even predate 2011)
> >
> > Fortunately things have changed since and more and more Gov are seeing
> > the benefit of OSS. So these clause are obsolete.
> >
> > But that does not mean that this state of matter should not be
> > changed/removed.
> >
> > The wording is very unfortunate and reflects a serious misunderstanding
> > (and suspicion) about open source.
> >
> > The Victorian Gov. has a similar clause, but is far less negative about
> > FOSS and only goes as far to asking that the providers asks for the
> > Clients permission before including FOSS.
> >
> > (The scary bit :
> > The Contractor must ensure that: //
> > //(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software; and //
> > //(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the Customer
> > Environment.
> >
> > does not exist in the Vic version).
> >
> > OSIA did respond to the relevant part in the Victorian document
> >
> > http://www.osia.com.au/drupal7/sites/default/files/OSIA_submission_1.pdf
> > (2013),
> >
> > and queried why such clauses were included and asked for a reassurance
> > that if the client had any issues they would first consult with the
> > provider and attempt to resolve the issues first instead of denying
> > "permission" without explanation without providing the provider an
> > opportunity to address the issues. Although this is *not* an ideal
> > position, OSIA felt that it was an acceptable compromise, and would also
> > provide an opportunity to "educate" the client about FOSS, which we felt
> > was the likely basis for including such clauses.
> >
> > One other thing of concerned in the NSW doc, is the definition of Open
> > Source. It is far broader than the more current definition from a
> > licensing point of view (OSI license). That further suggests a poor
> > understanding of Open Source software license which was common then.
> >
> > Probably the best way to approach this is to seek that the NSW Gov
> > updates the document to reflect the latest trends in adoption of FOSS.
> > I am sure there are plenty of examples that they can be pointed to that
> > show the benefits of open source and that the clauses mentionned only
> > restrains their own abilities to make gain of the benefits of Open Source.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Daniel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 05/11/14 15:17, Martyn Reeves wrote:
> > > Hi Cameron
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is indeed a concern but I guess the good news is that NSW IT is
> > > willing to accept OSS based systems these days.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We often see these issues when large organisations look to procure OSS
> > > code/applications. Black Duck Software can help bidders like you by
> > > creating a BoM for the code base showing exactly which pieces of OSS are
> > > used and how. And specifically what the obligations are for each OSS
> > > license and where they may conflict which each other, and also with the
> > > declared or published license. We can do this as a once off audit to
> > > accompany a bid or it can also be offered as an ongoing service as new
> > > releases are put together. Black Duck can also show security
> > > vulnerabilities for all the OSS that is contained within the BoM, or for
> > > any piece of OSS that is requested.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You can read more here https://www.blackducksoftware.com/audits or feel
> > > free to ask me any questions by mail
> > >
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > >
> > > Martyn Reeves
> > >
> > > mreeves at blackducksoftware.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* osia-members-bounces at osia.com.au
> > > [osia-members-bounces at osia.com.au] on behalf of Cameron Shorter
> > > [cameron.shorter at gmail.com]
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 04, 2014 6:21 PM
> > > *To:* osia-members at osia.com.au
> > > *Subject:* [Osia-members] NSW Government Procurement actively
> > > discourages use of Open Source
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if others are aware of this, but I suspect it is directly
> > > of concerned to all of us working with Open Source Software.
> > >
> > > The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1) specifically discourses
> > > use of Open Source software with Major Project System Integration Services.
> > >
> > > /23 Open Source Software //
> > > //23.1 The Contractor must ensure that: //
> > > //(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software; and //
> > > //(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the Customer
> > > Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved by the Customer in
> > > writing. //
> > > //23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation to the use of
> > > any Open Source Software //
> > > //under clause 23.1: //
> > > //(a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open Source
> > > Software will not result in an obligation to disclose, license or
> > > otherwise make available any part of the Customer Environment or any of
> > > the Customer’sConfidential Information to any third party; and //
> > > //(b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any way diminish
> > > the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract, including without
> > > limitation in relation to any warranties, indemnities or any provisions
> > > dealing with the licensing or assignment of Intellectual Property. /
> > >
> > > https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31
> > > See: Module 13A Major project systems integration services
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Osia-members mailing list
> > > Osia-members at osia.com.au
> > > http://www.osia.com.au/mailman/listinfo/osia-members
> >
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