[Osia-members] NSW Government Procurement actively discourages use of Open Source
djitnah
djitnah at greenwareit.com.au
Wed Nov 19 18:56:51 EST 2014
On 19-11-2014 19:31, Don Christie wrote:
> I'm guessing anything based on .NET is due for a review in NSW govt.
> circles.
This is exactly the scenario that OSIA pointed out to the Vic Gov in its
submission in 2013!!
What happens when a software company decides to open source software
that was originally closed source???
Cheers
Daniel.
>
>
> On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 12:01 +1000, Paul Moore wrote:
>> I agree.
>>
>>
>> It's outrageous that the NSW Government is so against free software
>> and prevents it being assessed on it's own merits.
>>
>>
>> Paul Moore - Astute Systems
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 19, 2014, Cameron Shorter
>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I propose that the following email is sent on behalf of OSIA
>> by the OSIA president:
>>
>> From: OSIA president
>> To: nswbuy at finance.nsw.gov.au
>> CC: osia-members at osia.com.au, cameron.shorter at lisasoft.com
>>
>> To NSW Procurement Team,
>>
>> We, the Open Source Industry of Australia, who represent
>> Australian Open Source companies, are concerned that NSW
>> Procurement guidelines about Open Source Software should be
>> changed.
>> The guidelines:
>> * Inaccurately imply Proprietary Software is less risky than
>> Open Source [1],
>> * Unfairly discriminate against Australian Open Source
>> Software solutions [1],
>> * Conflict with Australian government policy which directly
>> mandate that Open Source and Proprietary Software should be
>> considered equally.[2]
>> * Increases the cost of NSW Government IT purchases by
>> actively discouraging use of Open Source.
>>
>> Could the NSW Procurement Team please review the current Open
>> Source statement, and assess the appropriateness of updating
>> to Australian Government Policy statements related to Open
>> Source.
>>
>>
>> Reference 1:
>>
>> The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1) specifically
>> discourses use of Open Source software with Major Project
>> System Integration Services.
>>
>> 23 Open Source Software
>> 23.1 The Contractor must ensure that:
>> (a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source Software;
>> and
>> (b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the
>> Customer Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved
>> by the Customer in writing.
>> 23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation to the
>> use of any Open Source Software
>> under clause 23.1:
>> (a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open
>> Source Software will not result in an obligation to disclose,
>> license or otherwise make available any part of the Customer
>> Environment or any of the Customer’sConfidential Information
>> to any third party; and
>> (b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any way
>> diminish the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract,
>> including without limitation in relation to any warranties,
>> indemnities or any provisions dealing with the licensing or
>> assignment of Intellectual Property.
>>
>>
>> https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31
>> See: Module 13A Major project systems integration services
>>
>> Reference 2:
>> The "Australian Government Policy on Open Source Software"
>> specificy encourages equal assessment Open Source Software:
>> Principle 1: Australian Government ICT procurement processes
>> must actively and fairly consider all types of available
>> software.
>> Australian Government agencies must actively and fairly
>> consider all types of available software (including but not
>> limited to open source software and proprietary software)
>> through their ICT procurement processes. It is recognised
>> there may be areas where open source software is not yet
>> available for consideration. Procurement decisions must be
>> made based on value for money. Procurement decisions should
>> take into account
>> whole-of-life costs, capability, security, scalability,
>> transferability, support and manageability requirements.
>> For a covered procurement (over $80K), agencies are required
>> to include in their procurement plan that open source software
>> will be considered equally alongside proprietary software.
>> Agencies will be required to insert a statement into any
>> Request for Tender that they will consider open source
>> software equally alongside proprietary software. Tender
>> responses will be evaluated under the normal requirements of
>> the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. For a non-covered
>> procurement (below $80K), agencies are required to document
>> all key decisions, as required by the Commonwealth Procurement
>> Guidelines. This includes how they considered open source
>> software suppliers when selecting suppliers to respond to the
>> Select Tender or Request for Quotation.
>>
>>
>> http://www.finance.gov.au/policy-guides-procurement/open-source-software/
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/2014 4:04 pm, Daniel Jitnah wrote:
>>
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Just quickly read the actual NSW document on this matter.
>> Two points:
>> >
>> > My guess is that these clauses have been in there for a long
>> time and
>> > no-one has really paid much attention to them. They reflect
>> the typical
>> > attitude of say 5yrs+ past of Gov agencies and large
>> business regarding
>> > OSS at the time of intense Microsoft fud re: SCO etc.
>> (Note the
>> > original doc is from 2011, and none of the changes
>> mentionned (in 2013)
>> > appeared to have affected the relevant sections. Chances
>> are these
>> > clauses even predate 2011)
>> >
>> > Fortunately things have changed since and more and more Gov
>> are seeing
>> > the benefit of OSS. So these clause are obsolete.
>> >
>> > But that does not mean that this state of matter should not
>> be
>> > changed/removed.
>> >
>> > The wording is very unfortunate and reflects a serious
>> misunderstanding
>> > (and suspicion) about open source.
>> >
>> > The Victorian Gov. has a similar clause, but is far less
>> negative about
>> > FOSS and only goes as far to asking that the providers asks
>> for the
>> > Clients permission before including FOSS.
>> >
>> > (The scary bit :
>> > The Contractor must ensure that: //
>> > //(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source
>> Software; and //
>> > //(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the
>> Customer
>> > Environment.
>> >
>> > does not exist in the Vic version).
>> >
>> > OSIA did respond to the relevant part in the Victorian
>> document
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.osia.com.au/drupal7/sites/default/files/OSIA_submission_1.pdf
>> > (2013),
>> >
>> > and queried why such clauses were included and asked for a
>> reassurance
>> > that if the client had any issues they would first consult
>> with the
>> > provider and attempt to resolve the issues first instead of
>> denying
>> > "permission" without explanation without providing the
>> provider an
>> > opportunity to address the issues. Although this is *not*
>> an ideal
>> > position, OSIA felt that it was an acceptable compromise,
>> and would also
>> > provide an opportunity to "educate" the client about FOSS,
>> which we felt
>> > was the likely basis for including such clauses.
>> >
>> > One other thing of concerned in the NSW doc, is the
>> definition of Open
>> > Source. It is far broader than the more current definition
>> from a
>> > licensing point of view (OSI license). That further
>> suggests a poor
>> > understanding of Open Source software license which was
>> common then.
>> >
>> > Probably the best way to approach this is to seek that the
>> NSW Gov
>> > updates the document to reflect the latest trends in
>> adoption of FOSS.
>> > I am sure there are plenty of examples that they can be
>> pointed to that
>> > show the benefits of open source and that the clauses
>> mentionned only
>> > restrains their own abilities to make gain of the benefits
>> of Open Source.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Daniel.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 05/11/14 15:17, Martyn Reeves wrote:
>> > > Hi Cameron
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > It is indeed a concern but I guess the good news is that
>> NSW IT is
>> > > willing to accept OSS based systems these days.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > We often see these issues when large organisations look to
>> procure OSS
>> > > code/applications. Black Duck Software can help bidders
>> like you by
>> > > creating a BoM for the code base showing exactly which
>> pieces of OSS are
>> > > used and how. And specifically what the obligations are
>> for each OSS
>> > > license and where they may conflict which each other, and
>> also with the
>> > > declared or published license. We can do this as a once
>> off audit to
>> > > accompany a bid or it can also be offered as an ongoing
>> service as new
>> > > releases are put together. Black Duck can also show
>> security
>> > > vulnerabilities for all the OSS that is contained within
>> the BoM, or for
>> > > any piece of OSS that is requested.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > You can read more here
>> https://www.blackducksoftware.com/audits or feel
>> > > free to ask me any questions by mail
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hope this helps.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Martyn Reeves
>> > >
>> > > mreeves at blackducksoftware.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > *From:* osia-members-bounces at osia.com.au
>> > > [osia-members-bounces at osia.com.au] on behalf of Cameron
>> Shorter
>> > > [cameron.shorter at gmail.com]
>> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 04, 2014 6:21 PM
>> > > *To:* osia-members at osia.com.au
>> > > *Subject:* [Osia-members] NSW Government Procurement
>> actively
>> > > discourages use of Open Source
>> > >
>> > > I'm not sure if others are aware of this, but I suspect it
>> is directly
>> > > of concerned to all of us working with Open Source
>> Software.
>> > >
>> > > The NSW IT procurement framework (version 3.1)
>> specifically discourses
>> > > use of Open Source software with Major Project System
>> Integration Services.
>> > >
>> > > /23 Open Source Software //
>> > > //23.1 The Contractor must ensure that: //
>> > > //(a) none of the Deliverables comprise Open Source
>> Software; and //
>> > > //(b) it does not insert any Open Source Software into the
>> Customer
>> > > Environment, except to the extent otherwise approved by
>> the Customer in
>> > > writing. //
>> > > //23.2 Where the Customer gives its approval in relation
>> to the use of
>> > > any Open Source Software //
>> > > //under clause 23.1: //
>> > > //(a) the Contractor must ensure that the use of that Open
>> Source
>> > > Software will not result in an obligation to disclose,
>> license or
>> > > otherwise make available any part of the Customer
>> Environment or any of
>> > > the Customer’sConfidential Information to any third party;
>> and //
>> > > //(b) the use of that Open Source Software will not in any
>> way diminish
>> > > the Contractor’s obligations under the Contract, including
>> without
>> > > limitation in relation to any warranties, indemnities or
>> any provisions
>> > > dealing with the licensing or assignment of Intellectual
>> Property. /
>> > >
>> > >
>> https://www.procurepoint.nsw.gov.au/before-you-supply/standard-procurement-contract-templates/procure-it-framework-version-31
>> > > See: Module 13A Major project systems integration
>> services
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Osia-members mailing list
>> > > Osia-members at osia.com.au
>> > > http://www.osia.com.au/mailman/listinfo/osia-members
>> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Osia-members mailing list
> Osia-members at osia.com.au
> http://www.osia.com.au/mailman/listinfo/osia-members
--
Daniel Jitnah
GreenwareIT
+61 0413 082 049
More information about the Osia-members
mailing list